I think Israel has created a problem with never ending memorials to the Holocaust. I think new memorials should perhaps be cut off or isolated to 100 years after the events, so no new memorials after 2045 for instance (which is closer than most people realize). Memorials might also have to be amalgamated and merged to sites where significant loss of life occurred.
Hitler was a fuck up, and since his time other fascist leaders such a Ceaușescu (24 years in power), Putin (26 years in power), Chiang Kai-Shiek (25 years in power), and the leaders of North Korea (40+ years in power collectively) have demonstrated that if a fascist or Authoritarian wants to stay in power for a long time, it’s best to avoid mass causality killings, and invasions of places that have treaties and alliances.
Yes Hitler caused massive amounts of death, 6 million Jews in the camps, 8 million gays, criminals, subversives, and the mentally ill. Another 76+ million dead in the fighting (30, million of whom were Russian)…
Hitler was horrible because of the doom, horror, abuse, and mass deaths Jewish people AND OTHERS felt during and around these events… And this has lead Jewish people to create Israel.
The 70+ million others dead are also important too. The fact that fascists have since used other tactics to stay in power is important too. Germany has done a good job of remembering and protecting information around the Holocaust, but having an ever growing number of in-situ permanent memorials being created 70 - 100 years after the event may be getting extreme and lead to lessening the impact of remembering.
If road workers, and city planners have to deal with these, or they become too much of a boondoggle, they may no longer be seen as relevant or as serious as they should be.
Israel recently demolished grave sites and memorials to WW1 in order to better kill people in Gaza, so clearly there are limits on these things. It’s just a matter of finding reasonable limits whilst protecting the memory AND CAUSES of what happened, what causes mass killings and fascism:
I think Israel has created a problem with never ending memorials to the Holocaust. I think new memorials should perhaps be cut off or isolated to 100 years after the events, so no new memorials after 2045 for instance
Or maybe, just maybe, this has nothing to do with Israel and the decent part of the German population just wants to do everything they can to prevent a repeat of what happened back then. Now, in 100 years, in 500 years, … you get the point I hope.
What other bad people did in other parts of the world has no relevance whatsoever for a project that specifically puts small memorials near the last know voluntary residence of a genocide victim on German soil.
If road workers, and city planners have to deal with these, or they become too much of a boondoggle,
Never heard anyone else complain about that before. Are you a road worker or city planner in Germany?
the German population just wants to do everything they can to prevent a repeat of what happened
Conflicts with:
What other bad people did in other parts of the world has no relevance whatsoever
Do you mean: They only want to prevent genocides of a certain scale happening again in a certain area (Germany), and not prevent them globally? Because that sort of selective empathy is pretty fucked up you know?
Do you see how your two above statements conflict right? A wrong to humanity anywhere is a wrong to humanity everywhere. No matter where, no matter when. Why would prevention in Germany be the only limitation?
Seeing as I mentioned a WW2 memorial in Gaza, it should be pretty obvious that I’m talking more generally, and about a wider context than just this one project.
Let’s not try to regulate remembrance like that. The issue here isn’t that somebody doesn’t see a need for remembrance, but the reasons for it: nationalism, whitewashing history, Nazis weren’t so bad, a belief that the victims should “get over it”. Fascists deserve to be punched, not be elected to power where they enact their fucked up policies. Remembrance is very much needed while there are still fascists
Imagine living in Germany in 2026, you’d be pretty happy if you go six months without encountering reminders of that thing that horrible guy did 70 years ago that you weren’t even born for but the whole world still continuously makes jokes about.
It’s little wonder they’re electing right wing people, that’s how trolling works. People don’t like to be tarred with the brush of history.
Plus when the state created by “victims” of the Holocaust is doing their own Genocide Jr. I think it disrupts the theory of “Just remember and it won’t happen again”.
… remembering is made it’s own worship and what actually prevents fascism isn’t being looked at. What could prevent the 73,000+ dead Palestinians?
What good is Germany remembering when Israel are the ones who have turned fascist?
I think if you’re an adult and still believe that “some people are good, and some people are just plain bad” you’re a stupid person.
I guess Trump often talks about there being “losers” - winners and losers. Maybe you’re like him.
I guess you’re also of the opinion that Trump being in power shouldn’t have an effect on the American identity… Because according to you, identity doesn’t work like that.
I dont need to imagine anything, ive lived in germany all my life. The stolpersteine mostly dont act as rememberance for the nazis or the holocaust, but the individual person that has lived there. I walk past a dozen of these everyday. Most of the time i barely notice them, sometimes i stop and read the name, imagine what kind of person they might be. I mostly dont think about the way they died, and thats not the point; its about extracting a person from a statistic.
And the suggestion that germans vote right-wing because of holocaust memorials is just bizarre, and ironically also basically what bernd höcke from the right-wing AfD once said. Am i to believe that east-germany has twice as many holocaust-memorials as west-germany because right-wingers get twice as many votes there?
I’ll agree with you Germany is completely on the wrong side when it comes to the Palestinian genocide. But the solution isn’t to stop remembering the holocaust. With the rise of fascism today, this is increasingly current. Stolpersteine show the meaning of “remigration” or whatever euphemism these fascists invent for violently mass deporting immigrants.
I see where you’re going, but I think you’re seeing the effect of that naturally today and it’s not good.
WW2 has basically passed beyond living memory. People today don’t remember how Hitler came to power except through history class. People don’t remember the consequences of that on a personal level. They don’t remember living in fear. They don’t remember losing family members.
At the same time, you see fascist ideology on the rise across the west. The one place in Europe you’re seeing resistance is Spain. Franco ruled Spain until 1975. Still very much in living memory. I don’t think that’s coincidence.
Do you think anybody in Israel could condone what’s being done in their name if they remembered it happening to them personally?
I think Israel has created a problem with never ending memorials to the Holocaust. I think new memorials should perhaps be cut off or isolated to 100 years after the events, so no new memorials after 2045 for instance (which is closer than most people realize). Memorials might also have to be amalgamated and merged to sites where significant loss of life occurred.
Hitler was a fuck up, and since his time other fascist leaders such a Ceaușescu (24 years in power), Putin (26 years in power), Chiang Kai-Shiek (25 years in power), and the leaders of North Korea (40+ years in power collectively) have demonstrated that if a fascist or Authoritarian wants to stay in power for a long time, it’s best to avoid mass causality killings, and invasions of places that have treaties and alliances.
Yes Hitler caused massive amounts of death, 6 million Jews in the camps, 8 million gays, criminals, subversives, and the mentally ill. Another 76+ million dead in the fighting (30, million of whom were Russian)…
Hitler was horrible because of the doom, horror, abuse, and mass deaths Jewish people AND OTHERS felt during and around these events… And this has lead Jewish people to create Israel.
The 70+ million others dead are also important too. The fact that fascists have since used other tactics to stay in power is important too. Germany has done a good job of remembering and protecting information around the Holocaust, but having an ever growing number of in-situ permanent memorials being created 70 - 100 years after the event may be getting extreme and lead to lessening the impact of remembering.
If road workers, and city planners have to deal with these, or they become too much of a boondoggle, they may no longer be seen as relevant or as serious as they should be.
Israel recently demolished grave sites and memorials to WW1 in order to better kill people in Gaza, so clearly there are limits on these things. It’s just a matter of finding reasonable limits whilst protecting the memory AND CAUSES of what happened, what causes mass killings and fascism:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-said-to-damage-gaza-cemetery-containing-graves-of-allied-troops-from-world-wars/
Or maybe, just maybe, this has nothing to do with Israel and the decent part of the German population just wants to do everything they can to prevent a repeat of what happened back then. Now, in 100 years, in 500 years, … you get the point I hope.
What other bad people did in other parts of the world has no relevance whatsoever for a project that specifically puts small memorials near the last know voluntary residence of a genocide victim on German soil.
Never heard anyone else complain about that before. Are you a road worker or city planner in Germany?
Conflicts with:
Do you mean: They only want to prevent genocides of a certain scale happening again in a certain area (Germany), and not prevent them globally? Because that sort of selective empathy is pretty fucked up you know?
Do you see how your two above statements conflict right? A wrong to humanity anywhere is a wrong to humanity everywhere. No matter where, no matter when. Why would prevention in Germany be the only limitation?
Seeing as I mentioned a WW2 memorial in Gaza, it should be pretty obvious that I’m talking more generally, and about a wider context than just this one project.
Let’s not try to regulate remembrance like that. The issue here isn’t that somebody doesn’t see a need for remembrance, but the reasons for it: nationalism, whitewashing history, Nazis weren’t so bad, a belief that the victims should “get over it”. Fascists deserve to be punched, not be elected to power where they enact their fucked up policies. Remembrance is very much needed while there are still fascists
Imagine living in Germany in 2026, you’d be pretty happy if you go six months without encountering reminders of that thing that horrible guy did 70 years ago that you weren’t even born for but the whole world still continuously makes jokes about.
It’s little wonder they’re electing right wing people, that’s how trolling works. People don’t like to be tarred with the brush of history.
Plus when the state created by “victims” of the Holocaust is doing their own Genocide Jr. I think it disrupts the theory of “Just remember and it won’t happen again”.
… remembering is made it’s own worship and what actually prevents fascism isn’t being looked at. What could prevent the 73,000+ dead Palestinians?
What good is Germany remembering when Israel are the ones who have turned fascist?
If you feel targeted by Holocaust memorials, you might be a bad person.
I think you’re selectively ignorant.
Of course that’s not what is being said.
I think if you’re an adult and still believe that “some people are good, and some people are just plain bad” you’re a stupid person.
I guess Trump often talks about there being “losers” - winners and losers. Maybe you’re like him.
I guess you’re also of the opinion that Trump being in power shouldn’t have an effect on the American identity… Because according to you, identity doesn’t work like that.
Sure, sure, go ahead and ignore that possibility.
This cheap meme you didn’t make has nothing to do with what I’m saying. Fascists can fuck off and die.
You’re not worth my time.
I dont need to imagine anything, ive lived in germany all my life. The stolpersteine mostly dont act as rememberance for the nazis or the holocaust, but the individual person that has lived there. I walk past a dozen of these everyday. Most of the time i barely notice them, sometimes i stop and read the name, imagine what kind of person they might be. I mostly dont think about the way they died, and thats not the point; its about extracting a person from a statistic.
And the suggestion that germans vote right-wing because of holocaust memorials is just bizarre, and ironically also basically what bernd höcke from the right-wing AfD once said. Am i to believe that east-germany has twice as many holocaust-memorials as west-germany because right-wingers get twice as many votes there?
That is also not what I said. Germans vote that way because of deeper unprocessed issues within your culture.
I’ll agree with you Germany is completely on the wrong side when it comes to the Palestinian genocide. But the solution isn’t to stop remembering the holocaust. With the rise of fascism today, this is increasingly current. Stolpersteine show the meaning of “remigration” or whatever euphemism these fascists invent for violently mass deporting immigrants.
I see where you’re going, but I think you’re seeing the effect of that naturally today and it’s not good.
WW2 has basically passed beyond living memory. People today don’t remember how Hitler came to power except through history class. People don’t remember the consequences of that on a personal level. They don’t remember living in fear. They don’t remember losing family members.
At the same time, you see fascist ideology on the rise across the west. The one place in Europe you’re seeing resistance is Spain. Franco ruled Spain until 1975. Still very much in living memory. I don’t think that’s coincidence.
Do you think anybody in Israel could condone what’s being done in their name if they remembered it happening to them personally?