Donald Trump has suggested large numbers of Palestinians should leave Gaza to “just clean out” the whole strip, after ordering the US military to restart shipments of 2,000lb bombs to Israel.
The US president said he wanted Gaza residents to move to neighbouring nations, and that they could be displaced “temporarily or could be long-term”, after a phone call with Jordan’s King Abdullah on Saturday.
“I said to him: I’d love you to take on more because I’m looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now and it’s a mess, it’s a real mess. I’d like him to take people,” Trump said, when asked about the call.
He also suggested Egypt as a destination for Gaza residents, and said he would raise the issue with President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi on Sunday.
Reeeeeeeeeally hard to stop my self from screaming “I fucking told you so” to all the idiots who insisted Trump would be better for the situation right now
This is literally the exact thing I’ve been trying to point out for months
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
The plan was always their. They would get away with it even if it was biden or harris would won
It was Israel’s plan yes, not official us policy like now.
What would you make think biden or harris would have blocked such a plan?
Because they already were. Only siths and maga deal in absolutes. Which are you?
They never was. Every time the US say to Israel to not do something Israel does it and then the US give them more bomb and aids and diplomatic protection.
The copium is thinking that Biden,harris and trump wouldn’t try to outcompete each other is supporting Isrsel
Can we keep this cringe Funkopop liberalism on Reddit please.
It’s called objectivity sweetie and I’m an anarchist ✌️
you shouldnt start calling people “sweetie” or this devolves into a slapfight.
That what you want? To shut conversation down? And for an “anarchist” you sure are bending over to DNC corporatist hierarchy. Little bit suspicious.
Maybe he is someone who saw this last loss coming and sees further losses coming unless the dems can start doing the right thing again and adopting an actual effing platform that people will vote for. Remember doing the right thing? When did you abandon the idea of pressuring our leaders to do the right thing?
Because it’s the cowards way out at the expense of the Palestinians. Doubt there’ll be much left by next cycle
Oh?
So you’re ready to disavow Bidens support for zionists and agree that it was and is wrong, and that we cant support anyone who does that anymore?Welcome to the new democratic party, brother. Grab a shovel, theres a lot of corrupt DNC trash to haul to the curb for garbage collection.
You think Joe Biden who said that he was a fervent Zionist and that nobody in US history been more of an ally to Israel than him, and Kamala Harris who basically said she’d do everything he would have done, we’re going to reign in Israel? Good Lord man there’s a difference between optimism and naivete and you have crossed it.
And yet, it got much worse almost instantly. Weird that.
Maybe the fact that the Biden administration withheld 2000 lbs bombs from Israel and Biden repeatedly cussed Netanyahu out over the phone? Maybe because the genociders backed the Trump presidency fiercely?
Btw those held weapons shipments were happily continued by Trump earlier.
I mean the real question is, yes, genocide doesn’t stop either way. But which option lends itself to less oppression of minorities in the US itself? I mean if both sides genocide, but one genocidal side doesn’t want to fuck over trans people, but wouldn’t you choose the side that doesn’t fuck over trans people?
The trans bans are just a test as they work their way toward Hispanic, Muslim, and eventually everyone without a red hat on bans.
Is there a difference?
Actually, yes. For the Palestinians anyway.
Nobody I know thought Trump would be better for Gaza. Just that Genocide is the worst situation and it was already being ignored.
But now we get more death! Immigrants, trans people, FEMA, it’s like a Gatcha game of who else gets to suffer. We really taught them a lesson
The dem leadership knew the whole time exactly how to win the election but werent willing to pay the price in thwarting AIPAC to secure that win. All they had to do was recognize the genocide a few days before the election and follow existing laws on it, and acknowledge that many Americans are struggling. They chose to roll the dice instead.
I pointed this out to a dem apologist on bluesky and their response was that ending the genocide on its own wouldn’t have won the election.
Motherfucker, what?! Quite apart from the fact that ending a genocide shouldn’t be evaluated on how likely it is to win an election, it is the right thing to do and it would have helped.
But the dems decided that continuing the genocide was more important than improving their chances of beating Trump. Assuming they believe what we were told that Trump would be worse at the genocide, that means the dems decided to continue the genocide and also risk worse genocide. So they just chose genocide.
And now people are still trying to get up on their high horses about this shit.
Next time they say that stupid shit, share things like this with them:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
“I did not pull the lever in the trolly problem and it was the dems fault”
If you’re willing to let one group be subject to genocide, then all groups are eligible. You know how it goes, “first they came for[…]”
Are you suggesting we should just go for a speedrun through the list, then?
No, I’m saying that we shouldn’t be okay with giving up one group while trying to use the rest of the groups as a shield for excusing genocide.
But… I’m not okay with giving up one group, nor excusing genocide. We must be having two different discussions, because I got the impression you were advocating for simply rolling over and giving up.
What I was getting at is that participating in an immoral system, only inasmuch as wasting a little time to vote for a lesser evil, can help us achieve our aims when taking action outside the ballot box. It’s easier to fight genocide against one group than genocide against many groups, right?
Why have to bother yourself with harm reduction when you can choose to do nothing and passively allow things to get worse? That would be asking too much.
Maybe geopolitics is more complicated than the anti-Kamala protest voters have been lead to believe…
If your “complicated” world view means justifying genocide then it’s just a justification of murder.
Who did you vote for who wasn’t justifying a genocide?
Edit: Worth noting, 17 downvotes at this time, yet not a single reply with a candidate who wasn’t “justifying a genocide”.
Oh they both were, I’m just being real about what that means.
Gotcha, so you voted for one anyway?
I did
It certainly is. Unfortunately for all of us, it’s more complicated than the Dems and “lesser of two evil” voters (of which I was one) have been lead to believe as well.
Or they would have… you know… Won.
But hey, if we want to learn the wrong lesson from this again, far be it from me to stop us.
A lot of people here on lemmy believe fiercely that both sides were equally bad about it, and it is exactly that sentiment that led to 6.6 Million former DNC voters staying home while a fascist took power.
In the swing states the economy did actually poll higher among people who stayed home. Gaza polled highest nationwide but ultimately would not matter until Michigan. She lost because she let corporate advisors run 140+ different messages instead of focusing on the few issues that people cared about.
I haven’t seen polls specifically for people who stayed home, but anybody who voted Trump over the economy is just really really dumb.
There was one that went around Lemmy for a minute.
The idea that republicans have ever been better economically is absurd. They tend to drive the country into the ground by letting rich people fuck everyone over, then there’s some sort of crisis and bailout, then we get Democrats who fix it while being blamed for the republican’s mishaps.
Which could’ve been avoided if Harris had taken a stronger stance on Gaza.
Like what? Negotiating peace while keeping Israel as a strong militaristic ally in the middle east is the only option for the DNC. If I were running the show I would depose Netanyahu and reorganize Israel military, but if I ran for US president on that platform I’d get fuck all for votes just like Bernie Sanders did in the primaries.
Israel Militaristic ally is just another statement that hold no value at all.
US have multiple bases in Jordan with strong ties. Strong relationship with Egypt, Massive base in Qatar, strong ties to Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.
Pretending US need Israel is just a lie. They can literally make it another state and it would be much better option for Palestinians than current situation.
Egypt doesn’t even have a strong relationship with itself right now, and most of your list has closer relationships with Iran, Russia, and China. Hell, one of the most adversarial nation in the region, Iran, have been accused of being too friendly with the USA by Saudi Arabia leading to strained relationships.
Here is a picture of Jordan’s King Abdullah II visiting the Kremlin in person.
This is a proxy war. Nobody is really on anybody else’s side unless they’re surrounded by enemies and desperate for aid. Israel is that ally. Even Afghanistan turned out to be more against than they were with the USA.
I want it to change, I really do, I think there is an avenue for peace some day, but as it stands right now doing nothing will result in more bloodshed than propping up a bad ally and minimizing the harm they do.
That’s great but a single politician doesn’t get to make that choice for the US. That’s the idiotic thing of blaming all of this on Biden or Harris. Israel is supported financially and in anything they do by 95% of the US political establishment.
Yeah, no what led to 13 million (not 6 million) former DNC voters staying home was:
- Being lied to & gaslit about Biden’s condition.
- Kamala hiding from interviews where she might get asked tough questions.
- Kamala sending out Mark Cuban to tell everyone how much she loved big corporations.
- Kamala claiming she couldn’t think of anything she’d do different than Biden, other than having a Republican in her cabinet… while parading around with Liz Cheney & praising Dick Cheney.
- Spending 2 billion on her campaign, giving a lot of it to right-wing networks for advertising despite them overwhelmingly supporting Trump & to people like Oprah & Al Sharpton to pretend that they were giving fair interviews.
- Attacking other progressive candidates, like when she endorsed & paid for the ads to go after Jill Stein.
2020 total votes for Biden 81,283,501
2024 total votes for Harris 75,017,613
So I was actually over, the real difference was 6.27 Million.
I said DNC voters, not Biden voters. Semantics though. The point is that “she makes me feel joyful” wasn’t enough for people to stomach genocide & neocons.
“I don’t want many many more women and children to burn to death trapped under rubble while their families watch” should have been more than enough for people to stomach another Harris administration.
Democrat: “Trump is killing more of you than Biden isn’t he?”
Palestinian: “No, there is a ceasefire now. We are safer than we were under Biden at the moment. We hope that Trump doesn’t help kill 70,000 of us like Biden did.”
Democrat: “No I said he’s killing more! You must be one of those Russian Palestinian Nazis!”
Palestinian: “Are you okay? Do you need a doctor?”
Democrat: “FU Palestinians! I hope he kills way more!”
So which of those is worth letting Trump get elected over?
What pisses me off is even if they WERE equally bad about it, trump is clearly worse on a dozen other extremely important issues. So why throw away all of that for a single issue? If “genocide” is the thing, what about caring about Ukrainians? Central and South Americans and LGBT in the US? Poor, disabled people and veterans? Wildlife? Children who live near industry? Why throw all those people under the bus while getting someone who is the same or worse about Palestine? It makes no sense.
Genocide is the worst situation
Very obviously a false dichotomy.
Do you think Palestinians wanted Trump to win?
They want peace. Harris made no move to say she would stop the genocide.
A lame deflection.
You talked about what they wanted. They do not care who the president of the United States is. They care about peace.
“Peace” isn’t really an objective given that you’d have Peace the day after you ground palestinians into the dust.
Netanyahu certainly cares who the president of the United States is, who do you think he wants to be president?
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By you, yes. Palestinians knew they didn’t want Harris to win. Guess next time you’ll support their candidate, Jill Stein, if you actually care about what they want.
they didn’t want Harris to win.
Oh, silly me. So they wanted Trump to win?
No, Kamala & the establishment left wanted Trump to win. Palestinians wanted Jill Stein, an actual progressive that fought for them.
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Few people argued for Trump being better. Biden bombed Gaza to rubble. Trump comes in and does the paperwork. Biden is not absolved.
Biden didn’t bomb Gaza genius.
I must have imagined those American bombs dropped by American made planes being sent by Biden.
He asked Netanyahu nicely to not carpet bomb Gaza with them. That absolves him of it all.
I must have missed the part where Biden was put in charge of Israel’s military. You .ml folks are simpletons. 🙄
Come on, don’t act like you don’t know what he mean. He just mean thst Biden he is responsible by giving arms and diplomatic protection so Israel can bomb gaza
I know what he means and he’s wrong and so are you. Israel bombed Gaza. Full stop. Biden never had the power to stop it. Want to be angry at someone, choose the military industrial complex at the heart of America’s economy. The president only works for them, no matter his name or party.
Yeah he have no power at all to the point of bypassing the congress to give melitary aid to israel.
If Israel relies on US weapons, then yes the US has the power to stop it, by not supplying the weapons.
We know the weapons are going to be used for genocide. Supplying them is as good as pulling the trigger ourselves.
No you don’t get it, the president directly controls everything including the price of eggs and petroleum.
(These .ml types are as disassociated with reality as the MAGATs)
Is Trump in charge of Israel’s military now because that’s the only way for your comment to make any sense.
No Netanyahu is n charge of Israel’s military. That is my point.
Cranakis,
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/13/us-presidents-red-lines-israel
Eisenhauer, GHW Bush, and Reagan all stopped Israel’s zionist violence dead cold with phone calls, in pretty much this exact same situation. Its well established history that you either aren’t aware of or wont acknowledge-- neither possibility reflecting well on you.
The US is in charge of Netanyahu.
They can’t recognize reality or their propaganda addled brains would drip out their noses.
Reading too many .ml comments is akin to eating a tub of lead based solder.
When I was younger I played Skyrim, it seemed very unrealistic that NPCs though the wind shot them with an arrow, but seeing you I think they had quite good AI actually
“Hur durr, I gottem.”
In no way shape or form am I defending Biden here. His position was indefensible.
Trump is worse for saying the quiet part out loud, but the actions by all administrations since the establishment of israel show that this plan by israel is being followed regardless of what the president says out loud.
Because trump is more vocal, resistance and people could better predict what he could do and try to organize and find way to stop him even partially
I don’t think that matters. Israeli officials themselves have said their plans out loud. It’s already well known that they’re going for a full ethnic cleansing which includes genocide and mass relocation because they want all of Palestine and more (which they refer to as “Greater Israel”). There have been some actions taken, including by the ICC (which Biden wrote off as “outrageous”) and all those student protests which were forcibly silenced. Ultimately we need someone with power to do something. Trump certainly won’t do anything to stop it, in fact he openly encourages it. Sadly democrats won’t do anything either, even if they’re more silent on the subject or let a small handful of democrats speak out a bit (but not too much, or they get censured).
The US is the biggest power behind Israel and no one dares stand up to the US. If both of the biggest parties (and only ones that will ever get any power) agree to not do anything to stop it, then it will just continue getting worse and worse.
Yemen dared. Freedom fighter dares. But it is easy to call them terrorist while killing at least 100k mostly kids and children.
Why didn’t you have an issue with it at any point in the past 15 months?
I did. I still do. What’s your point?
You sure? It sure seems like your first thought here is “how can I rub this in the faces of those i feel like blaming for this” judging by your comment. You seem to want to retroactively remove Biden and Harris’ culpability in bringing us to this point.
Hur dur genius nostradamus here.
Nobody who watched genocide joe support genocide for over a year had any hope for 2025 and beyond.
At least the Palestinians are safe and Israel is paying reparations to rebuild gaza…
OH WAIT THATS COMPLETELY UNTRUE AND YOU AIDED A GENOCIDE. CONGRATULATIONS, LIB.
They can still argue that situation is better now but it depends upon a very specific meaning of “better” that doesn’t consider the Palestinian people’s welfare at all.
He secured a ceasefire, which is more than Biden could do. But ultimately, is he better? I don’t think so. I’m not sure he’s any worse, either. I wish we had better options.
He’s certainly worse, Biden didn’t piss off Canada and Mexico immediately.
I can’t really speak on internal US policies, i.e. whether Biden’s inaction or Trump’s wild actions are overall worse for the nation but internationally, Trump is far far far worse.
It’s not even a competition.
I’m talking about Palestine only.
Okay?
He did not secure a ceasefire.
Note that the ceasefire is literally identical to the one the US Department of State proposed the better part of a year ago. The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more. This falls in the same category as Nixon when when he pulled a very similar ploy with Vietnam.
If it was enacted now because of Trump, then he is the reason it passed.
Ergo he secured it.
He may be a piece of shit with nothing material to add, but his endorsement did move this ceasefire forwards.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more.
Wait…so, who’s responsible for the ceasefire? If it was Biden, why did he choose to do it after Trump got elected? What kind of “political timing” is that?
I feel like you’re intentionally misunderstanding and missing the point of what I’m saying
It’s not intentional.
Also the same category as Reagan’s election and the embassy hostages + Iran contra affair. It’s part of the standard republican playbook now.
Saying, “I told you so” has zero effect. This people didn’t reason themselves into their positions and will refuse any reason that would cause them to change their minds.
It was clear months ago these were smart people. Their utter lack of doubt continues to be the reddest of flags.
Good point; The message may be undercut by the grammar. Effect is a noun/adjective. Affect is a verb/adverb.
Disregard if you were actually trying to state that the concept of the number zero goes out and affects people in some unspecified way whenever that statement is spoken.
How would Kamala have been better for Palestine?
This is the 7th time you’ve commented this extremely low effort comment making ZERO points at all.
You’re a real piece of shit. You genocided palestine. You bastard.
Biden and netanyahu genocided palestine. That is my point. How is this worse than that. You know I’m right so you don’t even have an argument.
Oh so an actual genocide. Curious.
Continued genocide. As advertised.
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Do you believe what was happening up until now was not genocide? Because if you don’t then calling this an actual genocide makes it seem like you do.
Now with U.S.-approved ethnic cleansing.
I guess it’s time for all the “protest voters” to either admit they never gave a shit about Palestine or admit they fell for Russian propaganda.
Of course that’s if they remember about Palestine. A shiny red ball might have rolled past and distracted them.
Here are my thoughts:
- Israel has been committing genocide in Gaza since day 1, they just pick up the pace sometimes
- Every US president this century has enabled this
- Biden and Harris were all on board with the current round of fast genocide and they should be remembered for it
- Trump pretends to be anti-war but emboldened this shit by moving the US embassy to Jerusalem in 2018 or 19
- Netanyahu wanted Trump to win, as evidenced by meeting him during the campaign last year
- Any ceasefire supposedly happening right now is entirely to give Trump good press. He’s going to give Israel even more support for their imperialist bullshit than Biden did and Harris would have
- Because Trump won, the federal government is going after immigrants, nonwhite people, LGBT people, etc, and is going to further tear the good parts of the government down
I’m pretty disillusioned with the Democrats between the imperialism and almost completely giving in to the fascist takeover, but I wouldn’t be looking to get out of the country if Harris had won, so thanks for that if you could have voted and didn’t.
edit: I voted Uncommitted in the primary, helped out at my local Gaza camp, and have gone to rallies and distributed books about Palestine, so I’m not just sitting here at my computer saying all this
And that’s why Kamala’s stance on Palestine never bothered me.
I knew that as bad as it was, Trump would be worse.
I was right.
Gaza was fucked under either presidential option and we all knew that. Now we also get to enjoy getting fucked by Trump at home and hand the right the country. Other countries get to get bullied like Canada, Colombia, Greenland, Panama, and who knows who else and to what insane degree. Plus, Gaza will get to deal with a president that doesn’t bend to protest pressures at all and gives 0 fucks about humanitarian issues. We sure showed Biden for being an AIPAC puppet like the rest of the government. This is why the right has taken our government over. We constantly in fight and ignore realities for ideological purity while the right unites under the broad strokes of their agenda. When no option has the desired outcome, sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil.
Nope, under the Democrats, there are many Representatives who would listen and put pressure on a Dem president to do the right thing. Thanks to people with a smooth brain who think BOTH SIDES SAME, they are going to find out what everyone else already knew… they were never the same.
Hey but while Im being lead into a camp a bunch leftists here can feel good knowing they did the “right” thing by not opposing fascists
Indeed, this is what I keep telling people.
There’s no happy-feel-good everyone walks away with their faerie tale sitcom ending.
The world situation is fucked, when your options are crawl through broken glass or swim across a river of piss, well it might not smell good, but at least I’m a strong swimmer and urine is allegedly sterile.
Okay I double checked, urine isn’t sterile, but it has low amounts of bacteria and isn’t going to lead to me bleeding out or needing immediate medical attention.
If Harris was worried about it, why didn’t she change course on the campaign trail?
Why did she let Trump take office?
Because most people weren’t arguing about Gaza and it wouldn’t have changed the outcome.
With the benefit of hindsight, the only way she could have won would have been to address the high cost of living. “The economy” was the highest ranked issue and people voted for the guy who lied about eggs.
These comment are absolutely insane. It is like, yes lets cook this genocide on slow heat for a few years while enjoying our life in the US. Blaming anyone who took stand, and continue to take stand, instead of blaming themselves.
If Gaza was actually a reason for democrat losing, why people didnt protest who they did it to the point where it was clear to them it will make a difference. And if they did, why blaming people instead of the party that didnt want their votes?
On top of that as you and everyone mention it is economy proven by data, but they want to blame people whos families bombed by american made weapon! Like wtf is wrong with these people!
Because most people weren’t arguing about Gaza and it wouldn’t have changed the outcome.
Well, I know it wasn’t the sole cause for her loss.
With the benefit of hindsight, the only way she could have won would have been to address the high cost of living.
No hindsight needed! EVERYONE was telling her campaign this, and they ignored it, in favor of “data driven strategy”, where they A/B tested the hell out of everything for a theoretical “typical voter”.
“The economy” was the highest ranked issue and people voted for the guy who lied about eggs.
Yes, because Harris wasn’t believing anything to be an issue, while homelessness is spiking, costs of living are spiking, costs for housing are spiking… Harris demanded people believe her, over their own growling stomachs.
So, yes, her loss was multipartite, and had little to do with voters who couldn’t be arsed to vote for someone who has no connection to reality, and loves engaging in genocide.
Why did she let Trump take office?
She didn’t let Trump take office. You and everyone who didn’t vote for Democrats or worked around the clock to try to depress voter turnout for Democrats let Trump take office.
Lol she literally ignore Michigan voters, they attack heavy handed youth protester, then ignore people who saying economy is fucked. She did let trump take office.
She didn’t?
Last I checked, she peaceably handed power over to him…
sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil.
Sometimes it’s better to rip the dressing off ad quick as possible.
Harris’ was to let them be slaughtered in place…
Did, did you not read the original post that started this converation?
Unfortunately, some people are more willing to fight Israel to the last Palestinian than seek realistic solutions.
A realistic solution could have been had over a year ago, if we stopped blocking the UN, and stopped shipping them the tools to genocide…
What’s worst? Forced relo or outright slaughter?
It’s both genocide…
It’s cute you think the Trump administration is going to prevent outright slaughter.
I never thought he would. I just never actually thought Harris would, either.
It didn’t bother you because you’re a self-centered person who only care about her own well-being. My friend died in Beyrouth.
Yeah because I guess its better to allow a marginalized people to be tortured, raped and killed. I guess its their fault for being born in that part of the world and being of a certain background.
Its never free free to do the right thing. Do not blame the Lebanese government choosing to support Palestine for creating the American-funded missiles that struck your friend down.
I do not understand how you can seriously argue that it is the fault of the Palestinian people that your friend was murdered by an American missile fired on behalf of the Israeli government.
As someone who’s lost friends to horrible people who do horrible things, please know that I say this with a heavy heart.
It’s rare that we’re able to save everyone, especially with stakes this high.
That is not what I said at all. I’m not sacrificing anyone, I’m saying that there’s no option we can take that allows for absolutely no one to die.
Unless you expect that I collect the 7 Chaos Emerald, turn into a Super Being, and destroy all of Israel’s munitions while a golden goddess, but the Chaos Emeralds aren’t real so there goes that option.
Life isn’t a fantasy, it’s tough, people die, and there’s not a god damn thing we can do about it. If there was, I’d be doing it.
No, no it doesn’t. I am admitting that there’s nothing I can do to improve an unfortunate situation, especially when I have my own problems.
I think the mistake you’re making here is you assume there’s something I can do.
I’m not a politician, I don’t have the authority to declare Happy Birthday.
If I were a congresswoman or some shit, yeah I’d filibuster bills that give Israel more weapons and demand we focus on bringing peace to Palestine, I would refuse to vote for any bill that gives one red cent to the zionists, especially when that money would be better used guaranteeing healthcare for our citizens.
I am a private citizen, I am a TRANSGENDER private citizen living in the south, my immediate concern is to get rid of the Republicans because they literally want to kill me.
At no point have I ever expressed a lack of concern for Palestine, just an admittance that there’s nothing I can do for them. I sincerely have no idea what it is you want from me.
There are always upvotes for people saying that everything is solvable with a perfect moral stance. There are always downvotes for anyone saying “political realities exist”.
I am a private citizen, I am a TRANSGENDER private citizen living in the south, my immediate concern is to get rid of the Republicans because they literally want to kill me.
Yes I know but please stop virtue signalling about Palestine that is all being asked of you.
Americans paid for the firebombed that killed her.
I hate you.
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Re-read what you wrote, it contradicts itself.
One side being even worse makes the other side less bad.
By definition, one side being worse means the other side is automatically less bad.
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That’s a false equivalence.
John Doe’s actions have no connection to his brothers.
Here, either Trump or Harris was going to be the President. There was no action I could take that would have allowed a third party to enter that equation.
Even if me and the rest of America voted for Jill Stein, the Electoral College would still give the votes to Trump or Kamala.
If I were in a position where I could snap my fingers and bar Trump and Harris from entering politics again, then Bernie Sanders would be in the White House, Nethanyu would be awaiting his court date, and Israel would be paying reperations to Palestine.
But, I’m not Thanos and the only gauntlet I have is an old Power Glove in a box somewhere next to a broken PSP and a physical copy of Super Metroid.
Damn that’s crazy. What do you want bro to do about it? You want 'em to overthrow the american government?
If you had to pick between John Doe with a knife, Jim Doe with 2000lbs of explosives, or to have no say in the matter, which would you pick?
I really don’t understand why I need to explain this to you, but if there are only two options, the less bad one is the better option.
Right? It’s like the
“Oh well if you stop mass murderers from having guns, aren’t they just gonna use knives instead”
To that I say “Unless you’re Simon Belmont slaughtering waves of Dracula’s minions, I don’t think you’re gonna get anywhere near as high of a body count throwing knives at people.”
Very much enjoy the nerd culture references
Uh, it absolutely does, and the fact that you called someone an idiot while spewing such warped logic is hilarious.
I’m on the side that hands out awful tasting licorice candy. You are on the side that punches people in the face.
If you can’t understand logic this simple, no wonder this country is screwed.
You worded that poorly. You’re trying to say two sides performing evil acts are both evil, even if one side is more evil than the other.
Right?
Except it is a fact that there ARE degrees of “evil”, where one side has the ability to listen to reason while the other will escalate the worst outcome.
Semantic arguments go nowhere.
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Uh, yeah it does. It is less bad than the only other option.
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Great fucking job, bothsiders. Now you get Genocide++.
I really hope you’re happy that your conscience is clean now the guy who’s main spokesman said Gaza’s ‘waterfront property could be very valuable’ and who himself declared it ‘could be better than Monaco’, clearly with an eye towards beachfront real estate, has the power to make that happen for his own gain.
This was entirely predictable, and we told you this would happen. Trump told you so himself. The dems weren’t perfect by any stretch, but Kamala absolutely wasn’t looking at the situation as to how she could personally profit through real estate development if the Palestinians were just wiped off the map as quickly as possible. Trump likely had the choicest property mapped out, with property developers already submitting proposals.
If you abstained because of both-sides re Israel, fuck you. You at best were played and at worst helped to play others, and now we ALL get to suffer.
“Clean out”, what a wording. So they no longer have any problem saying they support genocide.
Just some light ethnic cleaning.
Clean out a particular ethnicity. Ethnic cleansing is the goal, genocide is a mean.
Congrats leftists! You solved Palestine! We just won’t have one!
The number of people trying to argue that not voting was legitmate is baffling.
In most states, there was at least one anti-genocide candidate on the ballot.
How many were there?
Seems odd to blame leftists instead of the people supporting, supplying, and carrying out the genocide.
Correct they’re not really leftists. Tankies who consumed too much Zionist and Russian propaganda.
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You can say murder. Or assassinate. Or kill. Man up.
Apparently he could not.
As leftists like to say to justify their one-sided attacks against Democrats: “Republicans are going to Republican”.
Leftists know this and still decided to do all they can to make sure they give the reins of power to Republicans yet again to “punish” Democrats when all their privileged white asses are doing is punishing lgbtq, poc, and now Palestinians despite their use of their issue to justify not voting Democrat.
But no war but class war right?
If you want to enter a house, do you use the door or the brick wall? In this scenario, the republicans are the brick wall and the democrats are the door. In theory, the door is more willing to allow entrance. How you’re framing this is that using the door is an attack on the door. This is the same attitude conservatives use when people critique the US where they’ll respond with “America: love it or leave it”.
As for punishing minorities, I’d take democrats more seriously about their claims of standing up for minorities if they weren’t so quick to ignore them or throw them under the bus. It was Palestinians and others in Arab communities who were driving the uncommitted movement. It was a movement that simply asked that people mark uncommitted during the primaries where Biden was running practically unopposed. This is the lightest of resistance ever, did not threaten the presidential election, and clearly delivered the message that people were displeased with Biden. What did democrats do in response? Screamed at the minorities and preemptively blamed them for sowing division and continued pushing Biden until his debate performance made it apparent to even party diehards that Biden was not going to win. However, the party diehards still wanted to continue his policies, so they saddled Harris with the burden of continuing his garbage policies. Democrats simply did not listen to voter concerns during the election.
You’re saying that Palestinians are “now” being punished, but this only shows your ignorance of over a year of intensified genocide and the decades-long campaign of ethnic cleansing Palestinians have had to endure with the support of both US parties. It’s less that Palestinians are “now” being punished and more like democrats are blaming everyone but themselves like they always do, even though they had the power to make a difference. Curiously, they did not use that power. I would be interested in your explanation for why democrats chose not to.
Yes because under Biden the thing was thriving… America lesser evil political system is making you so braindead it is crazy
So is your solution to give the country to the right and hope for revolution? Super cool for all the people here and abroad who have to suffer under revved up American fascism, including Gaza. Counting on that very slow train maybe pulling into the station seems like a solid plan.
I’m just saying blaming the voter for not voting instead of the political offer or the people in power and system is braindead
No, it’s brain dead to think you can oppose a corrupt entrenched power structure by taking your ball and going home. Elections alone won’t fix shit. Sitting them out to let in MAGA fascism definitely isn’t going to do it. Change takes decades, but if you give power to the people who will oppress harder and more readily, you are just ensuring more people get hurt in the process. The democrats at least bow to pressure some. Trump wants to shoot protestors and made sure to appoint people down with that. So yeah, I’m blaming really naive voters along with blaming our corrupt system not offering better options. Hate to tell you, but life is more nuanced than straight good and evil.
You’re blaming voter for not voting one for one of the political parties that is precisely the corrupt entrenched power structure you are mentionning … Then stating election don’t fix shit but still blaming ppl for not voting for Democrat ?
Fuck that. You don’t get to blame the DNC or Biden or Harris for a choice that YOU made. Every single person who was eligible to vote this election was alive to see Trump’s last term. The vast majority had the ability to read Project 2025. If you didn’t know exactly what not voting was going to get us, that’s your fault.
I didn’t make any choice I’m French lol. I’m just explaining to you how it works, you can keep blaming ppl for not voting rather than politics for not having actual program that make people vote for them. That way you make sure to not hold politics accountable after all they can do whatever they want and do nothing as long as the guy in front of them say worse shit. Just look where you went until now
My solution is to break from both corporate parties and vote Green.
What was biden/kamala gonna do better?
What did trump do better?
He did exactly the same as I would expect from Biden or kamala. Disrespect for Palestinians is bipartisan this past election had no bearing on the issue
Biden or Harris would have suggested ethnic cleansing as a solution? Fucking hell .ml users are just as deluded as MAGAts.
(They are the same)
They didn’t endorse it. They just supported it. Hell, Biden even bypassed Congress multiple times to send even more weapons.
Biden/Harris have been supplying and defending ethnic cleansing for 15 months
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We won’t get to know now. Now we get exactly what everyone told you about in the months leading up to November.
Where is Jill stein?
I’ve been watching a genocide for the past 15 months that was facilitated and defended by Biden/Harris, how is this worse than that?
They weren’t going to put immigrants in camps. I as a gay man didn’t have to worry about the sane had Harris won.
But at least some Marxists have a sense of moral superiority
Are you kidding me? You don’t see Democrats all over this thread throwing their moral superiority in our faces?
The democrats at least voted for the candidate that was not promoting fascism. Those that withheld their votes to retain a sense of moral purity have a role in Trump’s victory that those who voted against Trump do not share.
I don’t owe Democrats my vote. They have to earn it. Apparently, those voters did not think that Harris deserved their votes.
Now, I do think that you should vote in every election. There were multiple candidates from alternative parties that were against the genocide. If those candidates had gotten the votes instead, that could’ve really made a difference.
Ok so this is what Im talking about when I say that “at least when Im being taken to a death-camp you can tell yourself you did the thing that agreed with your morals”
And this is why so many leftists are not actual allies of the LGBTQIA+ community because when their idealism is faced with reality they choose to sacrifice the vulnerable populations for their idealism.
It was going to be a longer, more drawn-out genocide. Which is hardly an improvement.
Every single spared life, every single stab at a better life would have been an improvement
Biden/Harris wouldn’t have spared any lives, they’ve been shipping bombs non-stop to extinguish palestinian life for 15 months
The leftists couldn’t defeat Trump, and neither could you. What’s your point?
Holy Mother of Displaced Blame…
From what I gather, you’re making the insinuation that the people who refused to vote for Kamala due to her (and Biden’s) support of Israel are responsible for Trump and his heavy-handed approach.
I’d retort by stating that Israel has killed near 100k Palestinians and reduced most of the territory to rubble all while Biden’s administration had been sending bombs, guns, tanks, missiles, and money.
The main difference between Trump and Biden on this issue is how loud and open they are about it.
Is there a difference between discretely supporting apartheid or openly supporting apartheid? Probably, in an intellectual sense. But what difference does it make to the tens of thousands of Gazan widows?
Oh, now this asshole is all for other countries taking in displaced migrants.
Protest voters looking more and more stupid by the day. And will continue to do so every day for the next 4 years minimum.
I get the sentiment of these posts. Gaza had no chance. But now our LGBTQ and POC homies are in real danger and that’s what really pisses me off. It’s now going to get dangerous to even protest against the Gaza genocide.
Maybe the better plan was a massive protest by all Democrats to stop a live on tv genocide instead of passing congress to send more aid to Israel?
When democrat abandon arab voters why anyone expect them to be there when the other group getting attack?
The Democrats abandoned the left but we abandoned the vulnerable.
Cops were mashing Gaza protesters heads in already under Democrats.
Native Americans suggest the colonizers should just leave America.
Wonderful. Nothing like the US backing state sponsored terrorism. Not that it’s anything new…
Yes it was suggest in the 1980s and on October 13, 2023 by Biden administration. It also suggest by Trump again around 2018
Would that have been his brilliant plan for handling the start of Russia’s invasion into Ukraine?
End it in 24hrs means make Ukraine capitulate and reward Russia for all the bad behavior. Same with Taiwan. Same with Greenland.
No way he convinces Jordan and Egypt to take even more refugees they’ve taken millions already.
Well, they’ll still figure out some way to cleanse gaza…
This is beside the fact that Palestinians don’t want to leave their homes.
Yes that also.
You can expect everything from those dictators
He should give maralago to the Indian tribe that used to live there.
Returning the US to the tribes seems like a good idea all around. The Navajo did a damn good job taking care of their people with COVID vaccinations. Let the Seminole take back Florida.
